The other day I was eating tacos with my gay bf and the conversation, as it often does, drifted toward sex. I swear, it had nothing to do with the tacos. I was curious about at what stage in the dating relationship do gay men find it acceptable to engage in sexual activity.
Below is an excerpt from our most scintillating dialogue:
Me: When you and Walt met, did you have sex on the first date?
Gay bf: Of course.
Me: What do you mean “Of course?”
Gay bf: I mean, why wouldn’t we?
Me: Well, if you were both looking for a relationship, wouldn’t you think sex too soon would somehow cheapen it? Or that one wouldn’t take the other seriously?
Gay bf: No, are you crazy?
Me: Perhaps. But that’s beside the point.
Gay bf: What is the point?
Me: The point is, that is exactly how a lot of straight couples think.
Gay bf: That’s dumb.
Me: I’m aware.
Gay bf: If I meet a guy and I’m attracted to him, of course I’m going to want to have sex with him. And vice versa.
Me: And this doesn’t make you think less of each other?
Gay bf: What did I just say? He’s thinking the exact same thing I’m thinking, so why would I think less of him?
Me: I know, I know… It makes so much sense.
Gay bf: Besides, it’s best to know if we’re sexually compatible right off the bat so we don’t waste our time.
Me: The logic is mind-blowing.
Gay bf: Thank God I’m gay. Straight sex seems extremely complicated.
Me: It is… It is.
I constructed a little flow chart to illustrate the basics of gay sex and relationships, according to my gay bf:
The Basic Logic Behind Gay Sex & Relationships
It’s just so simple. No one thinks, “If he has sex with me too soon, he must be a slut” or “He gave it up on the first date, so there’s no challenge. Next.” Men know that men like sex, so no one is judged for their desire to get freaky on the first date.
But hold up, wait a minute. A little birdie just let me in on a little secret:
Women love sex, too. A lot.
What-what? Where’s your head at? Get out of town!
Of course, this revelation is about as shocking as the news that Ricky Martin smokes pole, but for one reason or another, some men just don’t seem to accept that women want sex as much as they do. And if she does, she is no longer considered relationship material.
The double standard is still very much alive: a man is allowed to have sex at any point in the relationship without censure. Conversely, a woman must exercise restraint lest she be deemed “too easy” and cast aside like the condom they had every intention of using but didn’t.
So with every new man she dates, the same question races through the woman’s head: “Will he dump me if I sleep with him too soon?”
Quite frankly, the nuances of early-stage straight sex is for the birds.
I should have been a gay man. I mean, the benefits are endless: Sex without judgment… no preordained assumptions about who picks up the check… makeup optional…
The only glitch I haven’t worked out is who would lead during a waltz.
Categories: In My Most Excellent Opinion
I hooked up with my current interest on our first date, more as a matter of principle. If I don’t like the sex, no amount of charm, personality, or ambition will fill that void. He could give Channing Tatum run for his money, but if he can’t meet my standards in bed it’s a no-go. I might keep a few photos for my own personal pleasures later, but a second date is out of the question.
imo not having sex on first date has nothing do with man/woman. like everything else that is fun there are reasons we cantdo it ;c. it is common sense that you should not let a random man put his penis in your vagina. who wants to get pregnant by someone they dont know? STD ? personally i dont want to wake up to man i dont know.
this whole women should be able to do it too is foolish. no one deserves to be labelled negatively. however stigma or not i still wouldnt do it and neither should men.
another way we could stop the stigma is if we all stopped having sex.
You’ve got great insights about adult love making easy girls and boys, keep up the good work!
I hate this stupid rule that says women aren’t sexual beings and therefore shouldn’t like sex. I can’t keep up with all the rules women are burdened with in regards to how to “act like a lady.”
I like sex. I like a lot of sex. I think about sex all the time. (…..starts daydreaming about last encounter)….oh sorry where was I….oh yeas sex. If I want it, I’ll have it. For my own personal reasons, it just so happens that I have never engaged in sex on the first (second, third) night. But that’s not because society tells me I shouldn’t, its just happened that way.
Man forget work, I should be having sex right now.
Another story about my life in my 20s – which were a lot more fun than my 30s, for some reason. Anyway, I still remember getting a letter from a male penpal in The Netherlands in which he explicitly announced his shock and wonder, at the age of 25, of meeting a woman who actually enjoyed sex. He’d been conditioned to believe it was something woman just put up with to be in a relationship with a man. And this was a Dutch guy, from liberal, laid back and open-minded Holland!
I totally agree with you about the absurdity of the old double standard. The games people play are really messed up.
By the way, speaking of The Netherlands and how progressive they are, did you know that physically handicapped people there can partake in government-subsidized, legal prostitution? A sex life is considered a basic human right. This explains their very different attitude towards prostitution.
When you really think about it, it is a humane attitude. It is all well and good to say that we are all free to go out and find a sex partner, but the truth is, some people don’t have the looks, the charm, the physical or the mental capabilities or even the financial resources to secure a sex and/or a marriage partner. Should they all be condemned to a life of celibacy, or worse, left to fester in their frustration and unfulfilled needs and possibly act out in deviant ways? The person we label a loser is still a human being and his/her sex drive is still intact.
So much to mull over! Thanks for such great writing, by the way. I’m having a very enjoyable afternoon reading your posts.
Interesting. Government-subsidized? That’s wild, man. I actually heard the Netherlands was cracking down on prostitution.
Aside from the double standards, I just prefer to wait a bit because once the sex is done, it’s kinda done. Like, it’s always been better when you wait a bit. A bit of anticipation is a good thing…
I get it, and I oftentimes agree. Anticipation is a good thing. But if a girl does decide for whatever reason to have sex on the first, second, third or whenever date, she shouldn’t be chastised for it. Men aren’t.
First – I love your blog. It totally rocks the Casbah!
Second – I’m totally going through this at the moment and hate the shiznit out of the double standard. I turned a once-respectable off-and-on thing with a reputed man-ho (did the whole two month hold-out, well – almost) into a friends with benefits scenario and the respect factor deminishes with every cupless leather halter I sport. It’s lame on a stick.
First – Thank you! You rock the cat box.
Second – Aw, that sucks. If you’re cool with FWB then all is good, no? But if you want more, ACK. Man-hos will be man-hos until they no longer want to be, and there’s no telling when that might happen.
P.S. Where’d you get your cupless leather halter? 😉
Is that pic of Michael Phelps and Rick Astley?
I think so.
LOL! You are a mess and I LOVE this post!
Thanks, hun. I’m a mess? Porque??
So, just as comparison, does the same hold true for lesbians? Is it only straight-couples where the whole “is it too soon” complication becomes a factor?
Sadly, I don’t have a lady gay bf, so I couldn’t conduct an interview on the subject. But Nikki down below weighed in on the topic – check it out.
Apparently, lesbians want to move in together after the 1st day lol, that is, according to the general opinion in the gay community of Toronto
Oh em geeeee! You are singin’ my tuuuune!
Yes. This. Exactly this. Why do I need to wait on having some fun in the sack ONLY because it *might* make this dude forget EVERYTHING ELSE awesome about me? Why should I curtail my very adult needs for someone else, and why he is so flippin’ shallow?
I mean, I don’t *always* want to hop in the sack after the first date, but if we’re hitting it off and the chemistry is cracklin’, you know we both want to so… why are we waiting again? Some antiquated notion *he* (not me) has about women and sex and dating and rules? Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
And there! Look there! Did you see that? I did it myself? I did just that lil bit of self-slut-shaming right there! I mean – say I *always* hop in the sack with the dude on the first date *if* I am feeling him? Or even if I’m not, it’s just my last-ditch effort to get something for a wasted evening? If we’re safe, and there is *enthusiastic consent* from both parties, what the frack is the problem here people?? How does that make us anything more than hedonistic and interested in taking advantage of a chance to bang? Who doesn’t like to bang??
Ooo PS the les-beans have little problem with the first-night-stand, as well. Although. That flow chart looks something like this:
Did you have sex? –> Yes –> Congratulations! You are not in a relationship! Wahoo! Can I get a U-Haaaawwwwlll up in here??
(I kid I kid…kind of… but I’ve had much less flack on a first-night down-n-dirty from the lady gays too – just FYI.)
*now. Not “not”
Damn. Ten thousand comments replies to mahself later..
Sing it, sista! Love your point about hopping into the sack making all the awesome qualities about me just vanish in the guy’s eyes.
Thanks for the perspective from the lady gays. I’ve heard of the 2nd date = U-Haul rule as well. I’ve seen The L-Word. (P.S. I would totally let Shane feel my boobies.)
So it seems it’s just the straight folk (men AND women) that perpetuate these silly notions. Time to step it up, and get with the NOW, people. Dontcha think?
Nikki: Can I use your quote for my upcoming book on dating/sex? It is fantastic!
Which quote? I would ask that you credit me properly by including the name & url of my blog. Let me know! Thanks.
Hi there: Thanks for getting back to me. The quote I would love to use is (we would edit it down a bit): “Oh em geeeee! You are singin’ my tuuuune! Yes. This. Exactly this. Why do I need to wait on having some fun in the sack ONLY because it *might* make this dude forget EVERYTHING ELSE awesome about me? Why should I curtail my very adult needs for someone else, and why he is so flippin’ shallow? I mean, I don’t *always* want to hop in the sack after the first date, but if we’re hitting it off and the chemistry is cracklin’, you know we both want to so… why are we waiting again? Some antiquated notion *he* (not me) has about women and sex and dating and rules? Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame. And there! Look there! Did you see that? I did it myself? I did just that lil bit of self-slut-shaming right there! I mean – say I *always* hop in the sack with the dude on the first date *if* I am feeling him? Or even if I’m not, it’s just my last-ditch effort to get something for a wasted evening? If we’re safe, and there is *enthusiastic consent* from both parties, what the frack is the problem here people?? How does that make us anything more than hedonistic and interested in taking advantage of a chance to bang? Who doesn’t like to bang??”
Am I speaking to Nikki, or the girl who writes the blog? I love this blog. Most of the women I have “interviewed” for the book prefer to have me change their names. Actually, I’m not even sure what the editor/publisher will require in this regard (not at that stage), but eventually I will get back to you with whatever form needs to be signed and how to have it credited, if that’s how we are going to do it. In the book I usually write something like, “Stella, 24, said…” I would love to actually interview you if you are open to that. We could do it via Skype or the phone. It’s a book about dating/relationships/sex. Thanks! Laurie
Yes, that quote is actually from Nikki, who is awesome. She also writes a blog, “Women are From Mars.” If you click her name it should take you to her blog, where she has contact information and you can ask her directly for permission (although I believe she is on hiatus right now). If you’d like to interview me, could you please provide more details about you and your book by e-mailing me at singlegirlie[at]ymail.com? Thank you, I appreciate your interest.
Ah, my fears that conjugal bliss would dull your wonderus blog have been eased. A thought provoking post.
My story – When around 26yo, and with plenty of personal evidence that women are as eager as men, I was chatting with a friend about the wonders of it all. My friend, picking up on my tone – that we were somehow fooling women onto doing this stuff (think to the image of a shy teen sneaking his arm around his date’s shoulders) – my friend blurts out “well Ron you do know that girls like it, don’t you? A life changing moment for me. Because in our f-ed up society, no guys don’t know this….
Wow, that’s hilarious! 26 and you didn’t know women liked sex? Have you ever heard us have sex? Dang, we’re the ones screaming and crying out like we’re being stabbed repeatedly (which we are, in a sense). 😉
With a few notable exceptions, I will only jump into bed on the first date if I’m pretty sure I’m not interested in them for a relationship — and just want a bang. I have never understood this concept of being a slut if you do shag on the first date, but it does come through to the gay world too; I’ve lost count of how many first-date-sex apologists I’ve had to be polite to in the morning. One reason I like to wait a little is that the anticipation can be just as much of a turn-on. Plus, if you go on a few more dates and decide you don’t want to sleep with them, you don’t have any ‘bad memories’ to look back on. You do, however, run the risk of building up anticipation only to find your date is a lousy lay. In short, there’s no right or wrong way.
First date sex apologists? Like, they apologize for having sex with you? Interesting.
I guess my point is, men (straight or gay) are expected to be sluts, and it’s okay. But if a woman does the same, she is looked at as easy, cheap, dirty and disgusting. I totally agree that the anticipation is a big turn on. But in the straight world, the man usually tries, then the woman is the one having to say “No! No! No! It’s too soon!” while our loins are on fire. Oy, it’s exhausting.
I heart FLOW CHART! One little criticism: you forgot the next step: Pursue relationship -> Cheat in 3 months.
I mean that light-heartedly, but I’ve seen this problem with my gay bro. The upside of their very male strategies are lots of sex. The downside is that it seems more difficult to build a lasting relatively drama-free relationship.
Ah, yes, that can be true. My gay bf has been with his guy for eight years, and truth be told, it’s probably the most stable, happy relationship of all my friends’. However, my gay bf does cheat. I don’t know if his partner does, but if he did, I don’t think gay bf would care. They definitely have a unique relationship, but it works for them.
Still, I think it would be glorious to not be held up to a double standard when it comes to sex.
That is so true, men think about sex 24/7 anyways so it just makes sense that we want to hop in the sack. I actually don’t think its a straight or gay thing. I think it’s a woman wants to get control of the man thing before they give it up.
Because lets be honest men will fuck pretty much anything that moves, it not us that say “NO”. But I will admit that us straights have all been conditioned to go through the motions and be good little children.
As for the guys wanting to have sex, it’s definitely not a straight/gay thing. It’s a man thing. But my point is, it’s a woman thing, too, at least physically speaking. We want it, but hold off because we think the man “won’t respect us in the morning,” and no one wants that.
For me, it has nothing to do with control and everything to do with what I just mentioned. I also never think I am “giving it up.” What am I giving up? It’s not like sex is an award that I bestow on the most worthy suitor. I just want to make sure you won’t be out the door the minute the condom comes off. Most women have experienced this at some point in their life and it is a very shitty feeling.
its so true the double standard its what makes women not want to have sex in the early stages of a relationship.
I did it, and it ended in me thinking He must think im a slut. but at least I took a risk
I think most women have done it at some point or another. And if it doesn’t work out, we kick ourselves for it. It may or may not have been the reason, but we are always left wondering…